Absolute ban: BST
Needs testing: PUP, SMN, BLM, RUN, GEO
JP-EN translation of jobs:
ナ PLD "naito"
白WHM "shiro" "shiromadoushi"
暗 DRK "an" "ankoku"
狩 RNG "kari" "kariudo"
踊 DNC "odori"
竜 DRG "ryu"
青 BLU "ao" "aomadoushi"
シ THF "shi"
モ MNK "mo"
戦 WAR "sen"
赤 RDM "aka"
侍 SAM "sam"
忍 NIN "nin"
コ COR "cor"
学 SCH
黒 BLM "kuro" "kuromadoushi"
か PUP
獣 BST
所 SMN
剣 RUN
風 GEO
2v2
Available jobs: MNK DRG DRK PLD SAM RNG BLU NIN
BAN:
WAR - provoke likely too strong, renders rook guarding mostly useless in 2v2
WHM - probably never kill the whm, not enough damage
THF - whoever misses mug loses, probably (too random) also, low damage
DNC - may never kill anyone with dancer's endless healing
needs testing:
RUN
Setups:
The general reasoning behind a fun 2v2 setup is enough damage to actually kill opponents, no/few enfeebling techniques, and the potential for rook guarding. Provoke/Enfeebling/Mug/Healing forever would drain the fun out of a small 2v2 game. NIN is questionable here but might work in certain situations.
MNK-DRG (classic, proven to be fun)
MNK DRK ok
MNK SAM ok
MNK RNG ok?
MNK NIN ok? enfeebling brutal? MNK can't deal?
MNK BLU too low damage?
MNK PLD too low damage?
DRK-PLD ok
DRK DRG ok
DRK MNK ok
DRK SAM ok
DRK RNG ok
DRK BLU ok
DRK NIN ok
DRG PLD ok?
DRG SAM ok
DRG RNG ok
DRG BLU ok
DRG NIN ok? enfeebling brutal? DRG can't deal?
PLD SAM ok?
PLD RNG ok?
PLD BLU ok
PLD NIN ok?
SAM RNG ok
SAM BLU ok
SAM NIN ok (soboro?)
RNG BLU ok (both stop to use abilities)
BLU NIN ok (could be interesting)
3v3
This setup is much different from 2v2 - it uses 1 "back line job" and 2 "front line jobs".
Back line jobs: WHM, PLD, RDM**, SCH**
Front line jobs (Strong): DRG, SAM, RNG, WAR
Somewhere in between: DRK
Front line jobs (Weak): MNK, NIN, BLU, THF*
Special cases: DNC, RUN(?)
*Possible when coupled with a strong DD
**Possible with Elemental Magic ban
Front line job strength depends on their ability to deal high damage weaponskills, good damage over time, but most importantly, have a strong 2h ability.
Setups:
WHM back line:
WHM + MNK DRG (proven good)
WHM + MNK SAM ok
WHM + MNK DRK ok?
WHM + MNK RNG ok?
WHM + MNK BLU too low damage?
WHM + MNK NIN too low damage
WHM + MNK WAR ok?
WHM + DRG DRK ok
WHM + DRG SAM ok
WHM + DRG RNG ok
WHM + DRG BLU ok?
WHM + DRG NIN ok
WHM + DRG WAR ok
WHM + DRK SAM ok
WHM + DRK RNG ok
WHM + DRK BLU ok?
WHM + DRK NIN ok?
WHM + DRK WAR ok
WHM + SAM RNG ok
WHM + SAM BLU ok
WHM + SAM NIN ok
WHM + SAM WAR ok
WHM + RNG BLU ok
WHM + RNG NIN ok
WHM + RNG WAR ok
WHM + BLU NIN too low damage?
WHM + BLU WAR ok? acid bolt
PLD back line:
PLD + MNK DRG (proven good)
PLD + MNK SAM ok
PLD + MNK DRK ok?
PLD + MNK RNG ok?
PLD + MNK BLU too low damage? (vorpal makes it ok?)
PLD + MNK NIN too low damage (vorpal makes it ok?)
PLD + MNK WAR ok?
PLD + DRG DRK ok
PLD + DRG SAM ok
PLD + DRG RNG ok
PLD + DRG BLU ok?
PLD + DRG NIN ok
PLD + DRG WAR ok
PLD + DRK SAM ok
PLD + DRK RNG ok
PLD + DRK BLU ok?
PLD + DRK NIN ok?
PLD + DRK WAR ok
PLD + SAM RNG (too much dmg?)
PLD + SAM BLU ok
PLD + SAM NIN ok
PLD + SAM WAR ok
PLD + RNG BLU ok
PLD + RNG NIN ok
PLD + RNG WAR ok
PLD + BLU NIN too low damage? (maybe not now with the high dmg vorpals)
PLD + BLU WAR ok? acid bolt
RDM and SCH back line would be very similar to WHM back line.
Problems with RDM:
Convert. Convert → Poison = death. Self-hyper.
Dispel. Devastating. Very cheap, low recast.
Elemental magic. Too strong after the update.
Problems with SCH:
Embrava & Kaustra. Needs testing.
Dispel. Very cheap, low recast spell - HOWEVER, SCH needs careful management of JA to be successful. It costs a charge to access Dispel, and a different charge to access Erase. On top of this, Dark/Light arts are on a 1 minute recast timer.
Elemental magic. Too strong after the update.
How can we deal with these problems?
Ban all elemental magic. Even for rook guarding with Stone. All or nothing.
Dispelling long recast abilities like Velocity Shot, and HP Boosts is annoying, but so is Paralyze and we deal with that.. !
Gentleman’s agreement for no Convert-death. It sucks to have that grey area, but I don’t really see a solution to this.
DNC as “back line”:
Before the change to one-handed weaponskills, I could see DNC acting as the “back line job”. It’s probably still possible now, but since DNC can deal great damage, it’s probably important to have the other two jobs weaker front line jobs.
Something like DNC SAM RNG probably wouldn’t work well as everyone can dish out great damage.
Maybe something along the lines of DNC DRK MNK or DNC NIN BLU might work better.
4v4
Back line jobs: WHM, PLD, RDM, SCH
Front line jobs (Strong): DRG, SAM, RNG, WAR
Somewhere in between: DRK, DNC
Front line jobs (Weak): MNK, NIN, BLU, THF
This setup is a pain. With 1 “back line job" and 3 "front line jobs", it usually means a horrible time for the healer as there is no way to really deal with all that damage coming your way. 2 healers and 2 damage dealers isn’t ideal either (for example a white mage and a scholar) as it’s quite a bit of healing to power through - unless you can deliver a solid skillchain (plus MB - holy or drain) on your target, it’s likely your team won’t get GB at all the entire game.
We did WHM PLD MNK DRK teams last week, and it wasn’t very good. The damage overall was too low. But something like WHM MNK DRK NIN might have worked a bit better. More damage, but not outrageous to the point where the WHM just dies immediately (Although MNK NIN DRK sounds a bit like a WHM’s nightmare…). I think 4v4 is where the weak front line jobs and back line jobs other than WHM and PLD can become staples. RDM and SCH have more tools to deal with multiple attackers, and the the weaker hybrids like THF BLU NIN can be effective.
I think the setup could go something like:
RDM or SCH + PLD or DNC or BLU + Strong DD + Weak DD
Some examples just for thought:
RDM + PLD + SAM + THF [PLD needs refresh, RDM/THF might be unkillable buuuut THF can still steal/mug them/SAM could raiden thrust - damage might be a bit low if THF & PLD aren’t DDing hard - SAM would be target?]
SCH + BLU + DRK + MNK [SCH naturally resists BLU’s ridiculous amounts of sleep spells through sublimation, and there are several targets for SCH aspir - DRK would be main target as usual]
SCH + DNC + DRG + NIN [SCH & NIN can enfeeble, SCH & DNC can -na - DRG has the accuracy to take out DNC if necessary - DRG target? NIN target?]
RDM + BLU + WAR + DRK [with RDM/WHM?]
5v5
Back line jobs: WHM, PLD, RDM, SCH
Front line jobs (Strong): DRG, SAM, RNG, WAR
Somewhere in between: DRK, DNC
Front line jobs (Weak): MNK, NIN, BLU, THF
Classic setup; 2 support, 3 attackers.
WHM + RDM or SCH + Strong/DRK + Strong + Weak
Because of how strong vorpals are, maybe it’s best to keep this setup PLD-free and stick to 2 true support jobs. Same goes for DNC, I think, unless DNC is used as one of the strong DD jobs.. ? DNC/SAM might be better as DNC/WAR with berserk can do sooo much damage now.
Eg;
WHM/sch RDM/blm WAR/sam SAM/war THF/nin
WHM SCH/rdm RNG/sam DRK/sam NIN/war
WHM RDM DNC/sam DRG/sam BLU/pld
//work in progress
